Curse

raven214 · Dec 04, 2006, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBaron82

There is another alternative, instead of making Razah easier to get, give us a new Rit hero in cantha.

/signed

The Factions ritualist hero should be found in Factions, and Razah is supposed to be something more (*hint* variable profession). Simple as that.

countesscorpula · Dec 04, 2006, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Did A-Net actually say that Raz would be variable primary? Or was this just a rumour that ran away and everyone accepted as fact? If someone has a copy of a Gaile post or some other source that says Raz has flex-primary, I'd like much to see it. That said, my god, how boring, a rit hero. Please, let me slog through heaping piles of suffering and gore to get a rit hero.
Don't get me wrong, I like Rits, i play one myself. But to have to go through all those lengths to get one... it's like getting socks for christmas.

now, i don't actually have Raz yet, but the only things i can see making him "special" are 1) did he come with an uber weapon equiped?
2) Are all the Rit skills unlocked when you get him?
3) does he never die or is self resing?

Shy of any of those things, i don't see how being a rit makes him "special"

Maybe if you could choose his attributes from ALL the professions. Imagine Raz with Energy storage and Soul Reaping. That would be spiffy.
Or maybe you choose his primary and it gets locked in... "choose wisely"

"The problem is, since acolite jin is the only ranger hero, you can't do that build. Now if Razah was a variable hero, then you would be able to do that build."

Margrid = ranger. Had you said a build that needed two mesmers, then you might have something.

"Henchies: I'd really be interested in seeing anybody completing DoA with 6 heroes (2 real players. If someone can do that, then I'd support adding henchies in. As of now, henchies would be nothing more than cannon fodder"

There is already a four man team that looks very promising, comprised solely of one player and three heroes.

Eclair · Dec 04, 2006, 12:57 AM // 00:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by countesscorpula

There is already a four man team that looks very promising, comprised solely of one player and three heroes.

If you're talking about Ractoth and his monk backline, I think that's still fairly limited in that he can farm certain groups, but most likely not be able to proceed to beat the entire quest. Also, his build only works because he can customize his heroes to whatever he wants. There's no way henchies can substitute.

Curse You · Dec 04, 2006, 01:11 AM // 01:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by countesscorpula

Did A-Net actually say that Raz would be variable primary? Or was this just a rumour that ran away and everyone accepted as fact? If someone has a copy of a Gaile post or some other source that says Raz has flex-primary, I'd like much to see it. That said, my god, how boring, a rit hero. Please, let me slog through heaping piles of suffering and gore to get a rit hero.

Try reading the manual.

ftp://ftp.guildwars.com/downloads/gwn-manual-en.pdf (page 36)

Gordon Ecker · Dec 04, 2006, 01:33 AM // 01:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by tehlemming

Why is anet obliged to cater to the part of its player population that, quite frankly, is bad at the game?

I doubt most of the people who have gotten past Gate of Madness are "bad at the game". If you complete the entire Nightfall campaign with an Assassin or Dervish using heroes and henchmen, you are probably a fairly skilled player who is still pretty much locked out of the Domain of Anguish.

darkdawn · Dec 04, 2006, 01:41 AM // 01:41

Add a mesmer to proph, a rit to Faction, make Razah variable and we're all happy. Razah as a variable would make him worth the difficulty of the damn quest but for now...meh.

Also if Razah is a variable prof he shouldn't be able to become a sin or Rit if you dont own Faction.

/Signed

EDIT: completly remade the text :P

Thallandor · Dec 04, 2006, 02:16 AM // 02:16

In a way i am glad they made him a ritualist, so i wont be borthered with him or feel the need to get him despite everything else.

Kelson · Dec 04, 2006, 02:35 AM // 02:35

/signed

Make it a bit easier to obtain Razah, leave the DoA alone, otherwise.

Neriandal Freit · Dec 04, 2006, 02:35 AM // 02:35

All of you who are signing this topic are but a minority, and won't see this come about. It's a hard quest, understand that. Hard quests and determination give great rewards. Razah is that great reward.

It isn't our fault, or ANET's fault that you as a player are not able to be the best at this game to acquire this Ritualist. If all the quests where easy in this game, we'd all be playing Pokemon again and connecting the dots on the "Color me in!" book's we had when we where three years old. Myself, I don't have time to do this, but I am happy and content for others that do and are able to do such.

I love the idea of having an exclusive hero to an exclusive area for an exclusive group. Wait, your saying I'm being bias now? Well, not really. We all have the same equal chance in this game to become and be a part of that exclusive group. We choose to, and our REAL LIVES determine what we can do at a certain rate. That doesn't mean they should lower the requirements of him to satisfy a person who isn't able, because of their life and themselves, to play Guildwars as others and take away from the others enjoyment of this game.

Now, for me, odds are I won't ever acquire Razah. Mostly because the Heroes don't interest me in this game and I would rather focus on my characters I can play my self and further their story lines. If I get him, great. I'll be excited and happy and use him when I want to. Likely won't tho.

Please, for this forum, stop acting and being a bunch of immature players. It does nothing for Guru but make this site look like a site for noobs. Which this site most certainly isn't. We have the pleasure of having Gaile Gray read and post on these forums. She doesn't have to, she chooses to. So be careful what you say and how you are saying it, we all can read it at any given time unless a excellent mod deletes it

.

draxynnic · Dec 04, 2006, 02:45 AM // 02:45

Something I think a few people in this thread are missing is that every one for whom the Domain of Anguish is even an issue has defeated Abaddon at least once. I think that has to indicate at least a certain level of skill. We may not all be super-elite, but we're hardly n00bs either.

In my case, one of these days, I will defeat the Domain of Anguish. It may not be with the character with whom I've already defeated Abaddon. There's a good chance it will be with my ranger. It may require putting out my monk's services as a healer. But one of these days, I'll do it - because I want to see the end. And I'd prefer to do so without it getting nerfed, for the pride of the thing.

However, am I going to do it with ten characters? Am I going to be able to collect Razah with all of the stable I have now... let alone those that may appear in future chapters? I doubt it. Just how fast do those gems drop, anyway?

Before the opening of the Domain of Anguish, no elite area provided a mechanical advantage. As has been repeated ad nauseum, previous to the Domain of Anguish, no elite area provided a mechanical advantage. FoW armour provides nothing mechanically that you can't get from Kaineng City. The other elite areas provide greens, but most greens can be duplicated simply by getting the right components together. Okay, doing the elite mission may be a more reliable means of doing so, but with some decent drops one can match almost any green through adding mods to a collector item.

At present, however, the Domain of Anguish has a mechanical advantage as a reward - the ability to have a Ritualist sidekick that is a) available in campaigns other than Factions, and b) customisable. And this is a capability that, presently, cannot be achieved any other way.

So, what this comes down to is a question. To all you uber-leet players who feel that any and all PvE is boring and easy and who scream LERN2PLAY at anyone who can't stomp through any area of GW on the first try, do you REALLY feel you need a mechanical advantage over all the plebs as well as your mad skillz?

(Yes, I'm exaggerating somewhat... but this IS the impression some of you are giving)

I'm not saying that we should be given a Ritualist hero on a platter - just that it should be achievable by normal play without having to defeat an area that is designed to challenge the best. Defeating Shiro in Factions would probably be my yardstick - an accomplishment, but not one that necassarily marks a player as being among the elite.

Read through the thread. People, on the whole, aren't calling for the Domain of Anguish to be nerfed. Despite the thread title, I think most of us are happy to let Razah stay where he is, as a prestige hero with similar status to FoW armour and the like. What we want is a substitute that doesn't require defeating an area which, at least currently, is considered to be the hardest PvE area in the game.

dreamhunk · Dec 04, 2006, 03:10 AM // 03:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarevok Thordin

You should be able to get the gist of this from the title, but anyway..

Razah in PvE is currently the biggest joke to get.

He is a FACTIONS PROFESSION, and in lodged in the insanely difficult NIGHTFALL elite area.....this practically alienates people without the ability to "make it" in the elite area from getting him.

Come on Anet, make it reasonable to get him, a way that won't require dependancy on others.

As for the rest of the Gate of Anguish, keep it the way it is.

i agree, but this move on anet part will hurt anet!, not very wants to spend +++++ meny hours to get him. then the hate of the ramped up elite aera

LifeInfusion · Dec 04, 2006, 03:17 AM // 03:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarevok Thordin

LEARN TO READ

This is not about the AREA of the GoA itself, it's simply about making a hero that doesn't have a basic counterpart elsewhere, available easily to all.

The way ANet put him in does not make sense at all

1. He is a Factions profession in a DEEP Nightfall area
2. He is the ONLY Rt hero
3. He is in an area that has a massive dependancy on other players/cookie cutter builds (You know they will be around soon)

Some people don't get this statement, so I'll help Sarevok by simplifying it further.

Math is fun.
================================================== ======
LET RAZAH = RITUALIST

IF RITUALIST = FACTIONS ONLY CREATION

IF DOA = NIGHTFALL AND NIGHTFALL NOT = FACTIONS
THEN, RITUALIST SHOULDN'T BE IN DOA.
================================================== ======

Either that, or they forgot to put a Rit hero in Kaineng. Razah should be a Dervish or Paragon IMO (preferably Paragon since they are more of the leader type).

draxynnic · Dec 04, 2006, 04:49 AM // 04:49

Actually, to play Devil's Advocate, having Razah be a ritualist does make storyline sense. He's a creature of the Mists, and the Ritualist is the class most involved with dealing with the energies of the Mists. In fact, I'm kind of surprised that there aren't more Ritualist enemies in the Realm of Torment (the formula seems to be that the only Ritualists or Assassins you see, apart from [SPOILER] certain imports from Factions, and even then I'm not sure I remember seeing the Ritualist or Assassin forms.

As I've made clear from previous posts, however, he shouldn't be the sole Ritualist hero in existence when it requires beating an uber-leet area to get him. It is also unfortunate that people with Nightfall only are limited in what they can do with him - although maybe in the PvE campaign he comes equipped with an elite skill so he does at least have something in the elite slot?

Curse You · Dec 04, 2006, 05:03 AM // 05:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neriandal Freit

All of you who are signing this topic are but a minority, and won't see this come about. It's a hard quest, understand that. Hard quests and determination give great rewards. Razah is that great reward.

It isn't our fault, or ANET's fault that you as a player are not able to be the best at this game to acquire this Ritualist. If all the quests where easy in this game, we'd all be playing Pokemon again and connecting the dots on the "Color me in!" book's we had when we where three years old. Myself, I don't have time to do this, but I am happy and content for others that do and are able to do such.

I love the idea of having an exclusive hero to an exclusive area for an exclusive group. Wait, your saying I'm being bias now? Well, not really. We all have the same equal chance in this game to become and be a part of that exclusive group. We choose to, and our REAL LIVES determine what we can do at a certain rate. That doesn't mean they should lower the requirements of him to satisfy a person who isn't able, because of their life and themselves, to play Guildwars as others and take away from the others enjoyment of this game.

Now, for me, odds are I won't ever acquire Razah. Mostly because the Heroes don't interest me in this game and I would rather focus on my characters I can play my self and further their story lines. If I get him, great. I'll be excited and happy and use him when I want to. Likely won't tho.

Please, for this forum, stop acting and being a bunch of immature players. It does nothing for Guru but make this site look like a site for noobs. Which this site most certainly isn't. We have the pleasure of having Gaile Gray read and post on these forums. She doesn't have to, she chooses to. So be careful what you say and how you are saying it, we all can read it at any given time unless a excellent mod deletes it

.

Did you even read the posts, again?

In simple terms:

This thread is NOT requesting that DoA be made easier. It is requesting that the only ritualist hero be made availible to the average player, just like the heroes for all the other professions.

The ideas for doing so are:

Make the quest to get Razah easier
Make another ritualist hero
Make another ritualist hero and make Razah variable profession

countesscorpula · Dec 04, 2006, 06:39 AM // 06:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

Try reading the manual.

ftp://ftp.guildwars.com/downloads/gwn-manual-en.pdf (page 36)

Sorry, the online purchasers didn't get a manual. (they didn't have it in stores on my island) And the manual wasn't released on line for a while.

Paperfly · Dec 04, 2006, 06:43 AM // 06:43

Quote:

All of you who are signing this topic are but a minority

Yup. The minority of people who play the game and also post on websites.

Guess what? We're by definition in the top 2% of Guild Wars players. The idea that we're more 'noobish' than the average is preposterous - in reality we're disproportionately competent.

Quote:

It isn't our fault, or ANET's fault that you as a player are not able to be the best at this game to acquire this Ritualist.

...Er, what part about it wouldn't be ANet's fault? The bit where the magical difficulty pixies came in and filled the area with Margonites that weren't there before? The afterefects of the magical quest-writing eight-ball?

Quote:

Please, for this forum, stop acting and being a bunch of immature players.

You've repeatedly brought up the age card, I notice - a surefire sign that you're young enough to be insecure about it! How about we just extrapolate from your statements and fill in the gaps with guesswork: Pokemon first came out when you were three, is that right?

Quote:

It does nothing for Guru but make this site look like a site for noobs. Which this site most certainly isn't. We have the pleasure of having Gaile Gray read and post on these forums. She doesn't have to, she chooses to.

If the site never attracted noobs, you can be entirely certain that Gaile wouldn't read it. I don't know if you've noticed, but she's not exactly a regular in the GvG section... But she does post in the Riverside Inn.

We are intelligently commenting on a design feature here, we're going to great pains to make an argument for what would genuinely be best for the game, and we specifically aren't complaining about the mission itself's difficulty. I fail to see what we should be so embarrassed about...

Ehecatzin FlyingCrab · Dec 04, 2006, 07:19 AM // 07:19

/signed.

1-Rezah costs 50k faction or completing DoA
2-pvp players ask for a reasonable way to aquire him.
3-Anets fixs it to 6k
4-pve players ask for a reasonable way to aquire him.
5-pvp player yells "noob" to pve player.

seruisly, leave rezah alone if you like, but I hope Anet adds a rit hero that doesnt require endless hours of my time to get.

chiefnoshow · Dec 04, 2006, 09:06 AM // 09:06

i understand and agree w/ the petition mostly. however, part of me thinks the player disagreement here would be the same if raz was variable.

not saying that anyone here plays like shat, it is an accomplishment to make it so far. parts of NF pissed me off but i made it to the endgame in time. this will either change by update or ways will be found around it.

in the end i always side w/ positive change.

/signed

savage vapor 33 · Dec 04, 2006, 10:05 AM // 10:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Well99

Useing heroes is a important part of the game to me.Doesnt make sense to have him/her for game after you finished....oh well

Couldnt Agree More.

I think the rit should be apart of the first quest in GOA instead of after.

glountz · Dec 04, 2006, 10:48 AM // 10:48

/Signed for:
* Giving a 6k Balth worth Rit hero for owning Factions
* Giving a 6k Balth worth Mesm hero for owning Prophecies
* Making Razah variable hero.

I'm not at all for lowering DoA's difficulty. But Razah definitively does not belong to DoA as it stands.
As we're here, just put a variable hero for each Elite Mission (Faction and Prophecies). I'd rather find Razah in The Deep/Urgoz than in DoA if he remains a "simple rit".